Today we have Jesse, owner and CEO of NPTA and Fit in Wellness here in Vancouver, and Julian, the manager at Fit in. Thanks for coming. Julian, you went the academic route, so tell us how you got here. Jesse, you took a completely different path. I want to hear both sides — degree versus no degree, what the fitness industry looks like now versus 10–15 years ago, and what advice you'd give your younger selves.

It started in 2008 when I had to decide what to study in university. My brother played a huge influence on wanting to do something in sports. In high school, I watched my phys ed teachers basically getting paid to play basketball and run the track with us. I asked one of them how he got the job, and he said take kinesiology. So I did four to five years. After graduating, I picked up a job at Fit for Less because I told myself I never wanted to pay for a gym membership again. Working at a gym is the best hack for turning that expense into profit. I started minimum wage at front desk reception and cleaning. I was eyeing the manager a 6-foot Russian guy named Nico, my first ever boss. The regional manager told me having a kinesiology degree would help me land a management role. It took almost two years, but I got my first general manager position in Scarborough, born and raised. From there I went from managing low-budget gyms with 7,000 members paying $6 bi-weekly, all the way to luxury fitness clubs charging $300 to $600 a month. The contrast was huge. The budget gyms gave easy accessibility didn't hurt my wallet, had enough equipment to get the job done. The luxury clubs tried to fit every service under one roof Pilates, yoga, group fitness, spa, massage, personal training, clothing shop. You could spend three hours and get everything done without commuting anywhere. The sales culture was completely different too. At the low end, there was no commission, no convincing. People walked up to a kiosk and signed up. The location and price sold itself. At the luxury end, there was extensive sales training, membership advisors working long hours, and incentives like Nike shoes and jackets for hitting targets. It was a lot of work, constant pressure.

My path was completely different. Around 2008, my phys ed teacher gave me access to a dungeon gym at our high school on one condition no one could know I was in there. So I literally trained in the dark, which I highly recommend if you've never done it. I also started volunteering at a French high school next door that had an actual workout curriculum with cool equipment like a neck machine stuff our gym didn't even have. Then I got my first gym membership at 15, and we'd spend four hours in the gym, then bike home after eating $2.50 meals at Lucky Star next door. From there it was toilets and towels — bottom of the ladder. My formal sales training was basically a blank sheet of paper, a pencil, $50 a session, go sell them. That was the onboarding and everything else. You went into the room and figured it out. In some ways that is being a trainer — you just make magic happen. I was fortunate to learn under an owner who took me under his wing and showed me both the front end client-facing training sessions and the back end everything that makes the business possible. That gave me a well-rounded understanding of the service. When you understand both sides, it gives you a real advantage not just as a trainer but as an owner. I bring all of that into how we run NPTA and Fit in Wellness now. We put a ton into our systems, our onboarding, our training. I hope people appreciate that because you need both great systems and great people one without the other doesn't work.

On giving advice to a 20-year-old, Julian says generally you need an attitude willing to learn. The biggest benefit of university was teaching him how to learn how to research, check sources, and verify fitness myths. But he probably wouldn't invest that much money in formal education again. Having a mentor is the real cheat code. If you have someone you can look up to and ask questions, you might not need the degree. Jesse agrees and adds that if ownership is the route, starting at the bottom is essential because you'll need to know how to do everything including the cleaning nobody wants to do. How we do one thing is how we do everything. Both choose certification over a degree in a rapid-fire round. Certifications let you dip your toe in, get thrown in the deep end, and move on if it's not for you. Jesse points out he's never heard someone say they regret a certification, but he has heard people regret going to school for something.

On how the industry has evolved over the last 10 to 15 years, Jesse says there's been a necessary softening. We see dumbbells and get excited, but that terrifies everyone else. There's a room full of steel and equipment that's intimidating. Even companies like Planet Fitness that have done a great job are doubling down and softening even more. The industry needs to ask how we make this inviting to the 75–85% of people who don't go to gyms. The language has changed too from "gym" to studios, clubs, and boutiques. Julian adds that his own mom still tells him to be careful when she sees him training, even when he's doing mobility work. That generation only knew fitness as something dangerous. The shift now is toward promoting fitness as a lifestyle matching movements to what people love, whether that's hockey, dancing, or yoga. It's not about forcing one style on everyone.

Thanks for coming. I know the gym is picking up, so I really appreciate the time. Jesse, pleasure as always.